Since this commenter has persisted in an astonishingly pernicious “bombing” of this blog, I have decided to point out his example to readers. Here are links to the threads on which HPK has posted so you can see all the comments posted by this reader, except for a couple which I deleted following his defiance of my wishes:
- Why Pastors Won’t Stand Against Abuse
- Does God Want Me to Stay in an Abusive Marriage?
- Rick Warren and Saddleback Church on Domestic Violence
- Should I Get a Divorce?
- Theology of an Abusive Marriage
- Factional Christian-ese Marriage Menders
- What the Bible Says..
- The Issue at the Heart of Domestic Violence
- Is “Fireproof” Helpful for Abusive Marriages?
- When a Pastor is Accused: Is He Innocent or Guilty?
After attempting to engage politely with this writer for several days, and after his insistence on continual disrespect, I told him he was no longer welcome here and to stop posting comments. In amusing irony, he then decided that “God led” him to leave this blog. Really? “God” led him away? After I told him not to post?
Just this statement alone should raise all kinds of red flags. He might as well have directly stated, “well, I won’t leave because you said so even though this is your blog, only because God said so, because I have no respect for you even though you are the owner of this blog.”
Well, after a break from “Happy” thoughts, he returned today. Since he decided to defy my stated wishes, I think his comments are worthy of making an example. Here is our exchange:
Happy Promise Keeper:
Hi, Danni. I am led of the Lord to come back here for a time. I would like to comment on this that you said …..
“Domestic abuse is exactly the same spirit as sexual adultery, but even more egregious because it includes the element of a murderous spirit. ”
Please share with me how you arrive at this conclusion, of course aside from simple opinion. I simply cannot see this point born out in Scripture. The Scripture is VERY clear that one CAN divorce for adultery and even remarry. But, with the vague definitions of “domestic abuse” we see these days, I am concerned that we are allowing too much liberty to divorce unless and until EACH case of alleged domestic abuse is proven. If we broaden Scripturally-allowed divorces to include the mere allegations of this “domestic abuse” then we are doing a disservice to marriage.
Agree or disagree?
Danni:
You were not led of the Lord to come back here in direct violation of my request for you to refrain. That expresses a tremendous lack of understanding of Biblical authority and reveals your personal fundamental disrespect for women.
How would it be possible for “the Lord” to lead you back here when the owner of this blog specifically told you not to post again? On this blog I have the authority to say who can post and who cannot. You have been very specifically told not to post but you say “the Lord” led you to disobey the authority on this blog? That is categorically impossible. So you need to check what “Lord” you are obeying – it is not the God of the Bible.
Your behavior is that of an abuser. YOU are openly expressing – and leaving a visible public record of – your own heart. Your choices are revealing some very vivid errors:
1) You are insisting on your will over what has been clearly expressed by another – which is abusive. This is the same heart of a man who will insist on his will over his wife’s because he does not believe his wife has any authority over anything – not even her own thoughts, beliefs, opinions, or ideas. If you will do this to a stranger on a public forum – you will do it to your wife and any other woman. I will go so far as to say with complete assurance that, since you cannot refrain from such behavior with a stranger in a public forum, this is a pattern of behavior that characterizes you in all your relationships with women.
2) You are using spiritual manipulation by saying “the Lord” directed you. The Lord will never direct someone to violate the will of another where that other person’s will is of equal, or greater, weight in the situation. The only way you can justify this is if you fundamentally believe your will is superior to mine and you have some inherent right to supercede and dominate mine – in blogland, where you have no authority; on my blog, where I have all of the administrative authority. This means your words that “the Lord” directed you are a lie and manipulative. If you are not aware that you are lying and being manipulative you need to get on your face with God in some serious repentance. That is a fact – which I’m quite sure you will reject.
3) We have previous addressed your insistence that I justify my writing to you – even on this thread. This is bullying, and again, forcing your will in dominance over me. I will not justify one word to you. I attempted to engage in dialogue with you and you amply demonstrated that you will not receive anything I say. So there is no point. “Answer not a fool according to his folly…”
4) Your choice to come back here and attempt to pick up where you left off is also typical abuser behavior. Abusers frequently make the rounds back where they have been before and previously attempted or succeeded in abuse, to see if they can pull the string again. Is there still a sucker attached to this one? You just did something so extremely stereotypical of an abuser, I am amazed.
You have some personal choices to make. You can receive the truth that I have just told you, or you can reject it. But one choice you do not have is to engage me in conversation on my blog about what I have written. This is not because I cannot defend what I believe. It is because I refuse to attempt to engage with an abuser. I have deleted your other comment. I will only leave comments by you because they continue to reveal your abusive heart attitudes – since they then stand as a living testimonial for others to see your example. Other similar comments from you will receive a similar response from me.
Filed under: abuse and the church, divorce, Family Abuse & Relationships, marriage, relationships | Tagged: anger, domestic abuse, domestic abuse in Christian marriage, domestic violence, marital abuse, rage, violence |
BECAUSE IT MATTERS ~ Freedom from Abuse in Christianity 
I don’t know if he is or not. But I think any accusation should follow the Matthew 18 guidelines which means to first bring your matter to him in private, not in such a public fashion.
One could make the argument that by doing this in such a public fashion, you are being manipulative, not to mention enlisting support for your view, which I believe are behaviors that are common to abusers.
So perhaps it’s best to deal with this matter in the Matthew 18 manner as best you can instead of such a public spectacle.
Joe
Joe,
We’re past that. There is a history – all of which has been public. I already went to him as “privately” as this forum would allow – repeatedly, pointing out his behavior and asking him very politely to stop. He has not only refused to do so, he has done so in an extremely power-dominant fashion. To do any less than respond to his publically abusive behavior with truth would be agreement with his lies — and allowing those lies to stand as an influence on this blog for the reading of others who may not be able to see the truth of what he is doing.
He has also been confronted by “two or three witnesses” on this blog for his behavior. That also was ignored and disdained.
If we are going to make a Mt. 18 analogy of this, this would be the “take it to the church” stage. The church is the whole body of believers – not a specific organizational body, especially considering the forum. If we happened to attend the same church, perhaps “taking it to the church” would be within that specific local group. But we are not.
The commenter’s abuse has been flagrantly public. Why should his reproof be hidden in secret? This is called consequences for actions. The Word says that those who will not repent when confronted are to be publically exposed so that others may learn if the offender will not.
— Danni
Well, danni, you are spot on, as usual.
There has been something really bugging me about this guy, and that is his insistence that (1) it is the church’s job to prove that abuse is really happening in the home and (2) the implication that the church has to decide whether or not two of its members can divorce.
Emotional abuse that is weaved into the daily interaction between husband and wife can never be proven to the extent that would make someone like Happy Promise Keeper happy. In my case, the emotional abuse was not something you could catch on tape, unless you wanted to listen to six months of recordings so you could see the pattern. (Not that the church has the right to tell a woman to set up a tape recorder in her home. IMO, that is presumptous and condescending. Why is she guilty until proven innocent?)
Assuming the husband is the abuser, the wife is possibly the only one who understands what she is going through in her marriage. When I went to church counselors like Happy, they presumed to tell me what I was going through, and always through the lens of the person they thought my ex was.
Why do church counselors like him presume that it is their job to determine who is lying in such an insidious and even hidden situation?
Thank you for your response.
Joe
To All:
I am deleting continuing comments by HPK. They have turned into personal attacks – again, and still, against what has already been clearly stated, against simple logic, and against the fact that I have now asked him repeatedly to STOP posting.
I thought about continuing to take apart his comments and expose the error in them, linking back to specific comments that clearly state the exact opposite of his accusations, etc. – but he can keep me tied up forever just doing that – which is…. you guessed it, I’m sure.
In fact, “remembering” history different than it happened and using this alternate reality as the new “truth” as part of more accusations is another characteristic of… you guessed it.
— Danni
Dear Danni,
I’m sorry. I was really hoping he might “hear” you…
At about the third marriage counseling session, the counselor pointed out to me what he called “deflection”. Its where someone accuses you of something that is really their own sin. Jesus called it “the log and the splinter” It helped me a great deal when the counselor pointed that out. I used to try soooooo hard to “do better” but all along I was putting herculean effort into “fixing” splinters.
So, Happy, whatever personal attacks you post (for deletion), look in the mirror because your judgments are coming from your own heart. and are no reflection upon Danni.
Danni, you are a wise and patient man. If HPK had been on MY blog, he would have gotten a tongue-lashing that put the flayers of the Middle Ages to shame. One of my sweet Christian teachers just experienced his abusive trash on her own blog, and it was actually tame compared to what he did to you; however, the real abuse occured when we visited his own little Yahoo “patriarch wannabes-R-Us” site and saw a whole slew of gleeful and arrogant slander against both her and every egal in existence. These people are children, male and female alike, and deserve public discipline from an actual adult like you. Thank you
Whoops. Danni, is that pretty picture of the woman in the right upper corner a picture of you? If so, sorry :S
You’re one heck of a lady.
LOL! Yes, that’s me for real. That pic was taken at my son’s wedding Nov. 2008.
— Danni